• daisypowellchandle

S2E3: How to repurpose 26,000 eggs with Beth Hart from McDonald's

Beth Hart, Vice President for Supply Chain and Brand Trust at McDonald's UK & Ireland talks to Daisy about how it felt to shut down McDonald's - and the important work that went on behind the scenes so that food did not go to waste. This discussion has it all: how to be a responsible member of a supply chain, the difficulties involved in quantifying trust, and even a cameo by Brexit. Beth shared some powerful reminders that are useful no matter which sector you work in:

  • That doing the right thing makes business sense

  • That your organization needs to evolve over time in order to not only meet stakeholder demand but pre-empt changes in society and consumer desires

  • That the most important way of keeping your teams and your stakeholder groups in the loop is to communicate in a manner that is clear, consistent and frequent – even if there isn’t anything new to tell people.

  • Being a responsible business also means showing up at the level of responsibility that your organization represents. McDonald’s have re-evaluated their importance to British and Irish farmers in the wake of Covid and decided to deepen their engagement with that industry so that their commitment is at the same level as their potential impact.

  • Finally, Beth echoed what we have heard from every interviewee so far this season – that if they had their time again they would have done more to shield their team from the impact of such a long-lasting crisis. We all hope that covid will remain an outlier in our careers, nonetheless it is sensible to avoid crisis comms plans that rely heavily on a small group of people and don’t make allowances for rest and information sharing.

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S2E3 - How to repurpose 26,000 eggs with Beth Hart from McDonald's

Daisy Powell-Chandler 00:08

Welcome to Why Everybody Hates You, an audio support group for reputation professionals. If you have any responsibility for how people talk, think and feel about your organization, then you are in the right place. I'm your host, reputation coach Daisy Powell-Chandler. 2020 was a pretty wild year for all of us. And for this series, I'll be interviewing communicators from organizations that had an especially weird time of it. This week, I'm bringing you an interview with Beth Hart, Vice President for supply chain and brand trust at McDonald's UK and Ireland. And of course, I started by asking her why everybody hates McDonald's.

Beth Hart 01:00

I think it's important to know that we're a big brand, we play an important role in lots and lots of people's family history, huge emotional connection. And a lot of people love us, you know. We're the naughty breakfast after a big night. We're the family celebration. We're the birthday tradition. We're the they you know, bad side of the pub moment that a lot of people miss, and will probably be looking forward to when the world returns to whatever sort of normal we can hope to expect. However, you're right. Some people do have a very strong negative view of the McDonald's brand. And you could argue that in some instances, we have earned that, you know, we in the past have been associated with not always the most positive things. When people see litter on the street, and they see a brand on that litter, they quite rightly have an enormous emotional response to that, and expect us to do more. And we should do more. And indeed, we are going to do more. People may also associate us with food that isn't the healthiest choice. And certainly we wouldn't expect people to view us as always the healthiest choice, but expect people to enjoy our food as part of a balanced diet. And certainly more and more, customers are making greater demands and stakeholders, making greater demands of us to do the right thing when it comes to our people and the planet. And we've got a long positive history in the UK and Ireland. But we need to talk more about that history and be proud of it. But indeed, we also need to do more. So I guess, in a long winded way of saying everybody doesn't hate McDonald's, people do have a really strong view, quite rightly. So we're better than many people would think. But there's certainly room for improvement.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 02:54

I think one thing that comes across to me from that answer, and it completely backs up what I have experienced when talking to people about McDonald's in research, is that that emotional connection is quite the responsibility for a brand - and for everyone who comes to work for McDonald's. How did that feel for you stepping into McDonald's world and taking on that emotional connection?

Beth Hart 03:21

When you come when first of all, when you choose to work for McDonald's, that's quite a big decision. Because you've got your own view, you know, it's not a brand that you've never heard of, it's not a business that you need to investigate and get to know before you decide whether or not you might explore an opportunity there. However, it is a business worth getting to know because actually, the more you peel off the layers, the more there is to surprise you. And the greater the potential there is to unlock. Boy has McDonald's achieved a lot in its fairly short history. 47 years in the UK and Ireland. It's one of the world's biggest brands, but it's actually quite a young company. But you know, God, there's so much more to do. And when you arrive at McDonald's, you're coming in to do a job. It's when you actually enter the public domain, when you're sitting at the dinner party and you tell people you work for McDonald's, and you realize that every single last person in the room, be it the oldest grandparent or the youngest child, has an opinion on your business and your brand. I spoke at my daughter's school when I first started this role. And I brought some treats in order to motivate these little girls to ask me a question. I didn't need to open a single packet. You know they were storming with questions and everything from you know, well done you for getting such a big important job. How did you get a big important job? That was a nice question, too. Don't you feel guilty by what you're doing to the planet...and out of the minds of a 10 year old? That's one hell of a question.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 05:07

That's bruising, isn't it?

Beth Hart 05:09

Yeah. But you know, it matters. And it matters to young people, that matters to all people. And actually, it matters to our business. And when you design a business like McDonald's, 65/70 years ago, when McDonald's came into existence, it was designed in a different era. It was designed for a different customer. And lo and behold, it's become one of the biggest successes in our living history in terms of fast food. So McDonald's has got something right, because it's giving people what they want. We just need to make sure that as a business we stay relevant and give people what they want, sometimes even before they know they want or need it. And part of that is doing the right thing wherever we are, in whatever way we operate.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 06:03

And you're a really important part of that - no pressure. Because you're in charge of brand trust, aren't you? Can you tell me a little bit about why you ended up having brand trust in your title, and why it's so important to McDonald's?

Beth Hart 06:18

I have a pretty cool job title. You know, the supply chain bit many people would view as functional or operational. I love it, you know, supply chains are a really rich part of my history. And supply chain gives me a reason to work with fantastic suppliers, growers, producers every single day. And it is vital to brand trust that we do that well, and do it to the very best standard and in fact continue to drive standards in that area. The other half of my job title - 'brand trust' - is relatively new. I picked up that additional title in April last year, when I had the pleasure of joining the board of our UK and Ireland business as a vice president. So that was fantastic. After only one year at McDonald's, and the fact that brand trust elevated my importance, is probably a measure of the importance of brand trust to our business. At the moment, I think I'm the only person in the McDonald's world with brand trust in my job title. But we think that's the shape of things to come. And the UK and Ireland always tend to be a little bit ahead of the game - but I would say that, wouldn't I - in that we recognize how customers feel about our brand as absolutely integral to our brand success. And everything we do is associated with our brand, every single place on the planet where we lay our feet is integral to our brand, and how we treat every single person that works for us or interact with us in any way. Be that a customer, be that a member of our crew, be that a franchisee, be that a supplier, a farmer, grower or producer, it all affects our brand and the way it is viewed. So we need to do the right thing. Not doing the right thing makes very good business sense. You know, make no mistake, we are a business and we want to remain as a successful business, and ideally be an even more successful business. So brand trust is in my job title and brand trust is a board level position at McDonald's UK and Ireland because it makes good business sense to do the right thing in order to encourage customers to trust your brand and in order to encourage customers to enjoy your food.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 08:38

Have you quantified what the impact of trust is on your business?

Beth Hart 08:43

Oh, that's the million dollar question. Or maybe even it's a billion dollar question. Who knows? And Daisy, that's probably why it's a very difficult question to answer. We know there's value in trust and you ask any big brand around the world 'is there a value in trust?' Of course there is. You know, you want people to feel good about eating your food or engaging with your brand. And we know there's a value to it. We've spent a huge amount of time trying to attribute a unit of measurement to that - be that 'I have propensity to visit a McDonald's', be that 'propensity to return to McDonald's', be that a 'propensity to recommend McDonald's', be that a 'propensity to tell people that you've gone to McDonald's and not keep it as a little guilty secret that many of us have'. We haven't quite cracked that nut yet. But rest assured it is a workstream in its own right, because it ensures that we make the right decisions to do the right things that matter most to our customers. And if we can measure what matters most to our customers, as well as knowing what the right thing to do is, then we'll build the right strategy and ensure that we deliver a competitive advantage. As well as complying with legislation, as well as doing the right thing for the planet and doing the right thing for our people. How we talk about it to our customers will determine how much we're trusted and how well we're perceived. And that might sound like some sort of strange business alchemy. But actually, it makes really good business sense. If we get it right.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 10:22

I think that's absolutely spot on. As someone who spends a lot of time measuring reputation, that makes perfect sense to me, because we know that reputation does drive those behaviors. 2020 was a particularly crazy year for everyone. But you've already alluded to how mad it was for McDonald's, having to close down restaurants, then open them in some format, opening takeaway, and perhaps not always having the ability to come in and pick up, relying on delivery. How did that impact your team and and your year last year?

Beth Hart 10:58

2020 is the year that we all joke "Oh, you know, we can't wait, you know, you want to put it behind us". And I think, if you think about it as a nation, the incredible loss that the UK and Ireland has endured - people's lives, people's actual lives and well's horrific. From a business sense, it was hugely challenging. I was on the phone to our CEO, Paul Pomeroy, on the day that he with the board had decided to close our restaurants. And as a board, with Paul at the helm, the decision we decided that any decisions we made would be based on prioritizing the safety of our people and our customers. So that weekend, it wasn't really clear. If you think about it, the first two or three days are where you think, what does your business do? What's the most responsible thing for business to do? What's the Prime Minister going to ask us to do? And before it was recommended that any businesses closed, Paul made the call to close our business. And he was really emotional, his voice was cracking. He had run this phenomenally successful business, we'd had 54 quarters of sustained growth, and I've never worked for a business that's been that successful, you know, not many businesses are. And, you know, at the end of that phenomenal era, we were going to shut up shop. And when you shut, and you tell your entire workforce that they shouldn't come to work the next day, you tell our 200 franchisees that we're recommending that they shut their restaurants, now these are individual business people, highly successful, competent, capable business leaders, and they've got to shut. And you're contacting every single one of our suppliers and saying, we don't want your food, can you turn the lorry around because there's nowhere for it to go. There's no real blueprint for that. So it put people under phenomenal stress. Because of course, at the same time, they're thinking, what does this mean for me and my family? What does this mean for my mum and dad, what does it mean for my neighbors? What does it mean for my children, and then the schools closed, and then McDonald's was closed, and we weren't really sure when we were going to open again. So that was a really difficult period in our history. And at the same time, the world was coming to terms with a global pandemic, and I'm watching people die. And we lost some of our own people. So it was very close to home that period. But then preparing to reopen it, you know, I've never seen people galvanize such camaraderie, such commitment. Because there was a sense of, well, we have a purpose. We have a clear purpose if McDonald's can reopen. You know, we're not the NHS. We're not the frontline. We're not the supermarket's, but equally, we're a little bit of joy. You know, if you can have a McDonald's takeaway, it's very affordable, it's a little bit of fun, you know, and it can come right to your front door. So we can comply with COVID. And in fact, you can even go to a drive thru for a big day out. And when McDonald's reopened there weren't many things you could do for a big day out, we felt we had a really important role to play. So actually, that was really uplifting and gave us a real purpose and motivation that I think we'll all look back on and feel incredibly proud about.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 14:32

And you talked a bit about how trust has to inform those decisions and how when the board took the decision to close all the restaurants, that was founded on what is best for our customers and for our teams. How did trust play into that decision?

Beth Hart 14:52

Oh it's interesting. Our trust scores, that we measure in terms of basically customer's perception of us, hit an all time high when we reopened. And we think, you know, I wish we knew...there's a bit of alchemy when it comes to trust measurement. And we think it's because we applied a very, very simple framework: protect our people, protect our customers. Every single decision we make, irrespective of the pressure that we are under, or the tight timeframe that we have. If we prioritize all of our decisions in that way, we will make the right decision. And so far, every single single decision that we have made with those two factors as a priority has proven itself to be right. Be that in our suppliers, our people, and then ultimately the performance of our business. Because what we also did with our business heads on was we've invested heavily in drive through, we invested heavily in delivery. So actually, the way customers engage with our brand is different, but it's easy. It's simple, it's pleasurable, and it's safe. So again, back to prioritizing safety. People feel secure in the knowledge that they get food that they trust, food that they enjoy, in a really safe way. That's enabled us to remain trading night through night and a number of different lockdowns of various shapes and forms.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 16:19

And this all sounds like a total internal communications nightmare, if you'll forgive me for saying so. You have all of that supply chain to manage and communicate with as you said, you're literally on the phone saying please turn the trucks around. How did you manage all of that?

Beth Hart 16:38

Well, as you know, I'm relatively new to McDonald's. You know, I'm two years in, but if you asked me to list some of McDonald's superpowers, I would say communications is one of them. I've never worked with a business that communicates so well, and right from the top. So you know, our CEO had a weekly communication. We met our franchisees every week, all of our franchisees. We met our franchisee committee every week, we spoke to our suppliers at the beginning of every single week, at least. And we told them what was going on, even if there was no news. And there was always some news because of course, the news was unbelievable at that point. But we wanted to talk about the news and what that meant for McDonald's, what that meant for our decision making. A newsletter went to our crew, every single week directly from our CEO, and everyone was saying exactly the same thing. Because everyone was completely and utterly aligned. So communication was clearer and more frequent than it had ever been in our history. However, we're pretty good at it. And we've kept that up throughout what continues to be a crisis, we believe we're still operating within crisis. And therefore our communication is at a crisis level, clear, consistent, frequent. And all channels same message. But also, when anyone has been directly or personally affected, contact is direct and personal. Be that personally, you know, in terms of family, or be that their business. So we've maintained a very close personal contact with all of our suppliers, growers and producers. And anyone who needs a direct personal message or insight gets that too. Communication has been pretty much everything to us over the course of the last year.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 18:25

Some of that sounds hard and not terribly sustainable for the long run. Other parts of that perhaps there are lessons you've learned that you want to take through into the everyday. What do you think you would like to carry on doing once we get out of crisis mode?

Beth Hart 18:44

I think this is what have we learned from crisis? And what can we continue doing? I think it's been on everyone's lips, as well as 'what's the world of work going to look like, post crisis is?' I think we're closer than ever before. As a business, we are kinder to each other. I think we know each other's strengths and weaknesses, you know, as a board and as a supply chain team, as a brand trust team. We've learned to play to each other's strengths. We know more about each other's family workings and operations than ever before. I think we'll be more flexible. I think we'll be more forgiving. I think we'll be more forthright. I think we will be braver and we'll keep things simple. We'll go big on fewer things to get greater cut through. And we will celebrate the people and the talent that we have got. I think that there's always this temptation when you're in business to think the grass is always greener, could we/should we. I think we have been utterly astounded by the caliber and capability of our people and the challenges that they've risen to. I don't think any business could have pulled off what we've pulled off to the level that we pulled it off. Therefore, I think we will continue to celebrate and invest in the people that we've got to ensure that we continue to exceed and succeed at the level that we have. And then I do have to put my supply chain hat on and answer that question again, if you don't mind, you know, because it's, it's different. And from a supply chain perspective, what would we take with us? Well one of our suppliers, who supplies our free range eggs, is gentleman called David Brass, who's based in the Lakes. And David and Helen, his wife, and their two sets of twins, their children, have supplied us with free range eggs for over 15 years. And indeed, all of our eggs have been free range for over 21 years. Another than those little brand trust nuggets that no one seems to remember about McDonald's. And when I spoke to David about us closing, he was very philosophical. He said Beth, they're 26,000 - apparently, he told me - free range hens in the UK, and they all lay one egg every single day. And tomorrow, when you don't want any eggs, those free range hens are all going to lay those 26,000 eggs, and they're going to keep on coming. What do you suggest I do with them? And at the time, we didn't know that everybody was going to go crazy for home baking. You know, I know that seems very obvious now, but back then I was going "I don't know. I don't know what you are going to do with your eggs. And we value your partnership. And we need you and we know we'll need you again. We're closing I don't know when we're going to reopen. And I need to find a way to look after you". Fortunately, in lockdown, you know, mince sales went mad. We make burgers out of mince. And, you know, baking went crazy. What do you bake a cake with - eggs. So actually, we were able to divert an awful lot of our supply chains to the retailers to ensure our suppliers, farmers growers, producers, still succeeded. But we kept those partnerships, we kept those relationships. And just remembered them when we reopened to ring them up and go, hi, do you remember me? I'm coming back, would you and I want all my eggs back. And by the way, because the pipeline is empty, I want double the amount that you used to supply me to fill up the pipeline. And they came back in their droves. You know, they had to bring people back into their factories with new COVID measures. Just what they did for us was unbelievable. So what will our legacy from COVID be from a supply chain perspective? We will value our suppliers, growers and producers, even more than we did before, we'll be very respectful of those farmers that were hit very hard by supply chains being completely disrupted and utterly imbalanced. And I also think that the UK and Ireland sort of farming ecosystem probably looks at McDonald's and goes, you're a little bit more important than we thought. So actually, we need to play a greater role in British and Irish farming and British and Irish sourcing. Because we had a greater, we only learned how important we were when we stopped. So our plan going forward is to show up, show up more and ensure that we're investing in the very best interests of our farmers, growers and producers. So that's quite exciting.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 23:22

That's really exciting. And I am absolutely fascinated to understand how that process went of trying to hook suppliers into the supermarket chains. Were they already supplying some to the supermarkets and some to you? Or was that a whole new connection that had to be forged in the heat of COVID?

Beth Hart 23:40

It sounds messy, but you know, economics has a funny way of driving things in the right direction. You know, we were talking today a lot about trust. And trust is important, and implicit, and a critical factor in everything we do. It is critical to our relationships with our customers, our suppliers, growers, producers, the success of our business. But let's be honest, there was an economy to run. So if there is demand, and if there is supply, they'll find each other. And they'll find each other naturally. But of course we can act as a catalyst to create that connection. You know, our beef suppliers are very, very savvy. You know, they see McDonald's go down and they see supermarkets go up. And as long as we're not putting in a barrier in the way and facilitating that flow, our biggest challenge at McDonald's was receiving calls from some of the retailers saying hey, can we have your eggs? We didn't think that was going to happen. But actually, it was easier to achieve than we expected. What posed us the biggest challenge was the food when the raw material had already been converted into food, and we didn't have restaurants to cook and sell that food. So we do have charitable partnerships, but we generate as a business with very, very little waste. So overnight, members of our supply chain team had to really up-weight our charitable partnerships to ensure that we could donate that food to the places where it mattered most. Remember, our food goes into a restaurant, so our food doesn't have cooking instructions. It doesn't come in, you know, standard household packs. It comes in catering packs, and quite quite big catering packs. So it was a huge amount of work to do overnight to create the right connections, to ensure that the pack size and orientation was suitable for its end use, and that we had safe usable cooking instructions. So what is a 100% beef burger, what is a free range egg, because we had some of those in flight, what is a burger bun, and can go to the right place in the right way so that someone can genuinely use it, eat it and enjoy it. And that was probably one of our proudest achievements. And those charitable partnerships will linger. And we are now looking for ways to build stronger, more meaningful partnerships around those charitable partnerships, be at fair share, be at the Trussell trust, be at the Felix project to say, "Can we do more in that space with our supply chain, with our food, and with our charitable interests, to ensure that we play a bigger role in solving some of the challenges that COVID has posed to our nation?"

Daisy Powell-Chandler 26:20

You are so wonderfully positive Beth. And it's it's really refreshing to hear someone talk about the events of last year in a way that makes me feel really positive about what we're going to achieve as a country next. In the midst of all of that, and as a business unit that covers UK and Ireland, you also had to deal with Brexit. That would have been a big challenge even on its own. But suddenly, you had that on top of COVID. Can you tell me a bit about the work that your team had to put in to make sure that supplies kept running in in both directions?

Beth Hart 27:00

There are many good things about Brexit in my opinion, but one of the good things about Brexit - and this is speaking as a supply chain professional, honestly, supply chain professionals, Brexit has kept us up at night since 2016. But one one of the good things about Brexit was it took so long that actually we were really well organized, you know, so everyone had organized themselves at least four times over for Brexit, the Brexit that never happened. Right? Yeah, you know, every every time it got pushed back, we went, well, you know, we were ready.But at least we're ready. Now, I would say COVID then threw us a curveball, because we were ready for Brexit. And then COVID threw us a curveball. So actually, we did use some of our Brexit crisis planning in order to manage our supply chain in the early stages of COVID. And then ironically, over Christmas, we used some of our COVID planning to navigate the challenge that Brexit posed us, because it was just like one big long, never ending crisis. I don't think there's a single supply chain professional in Europe or the UK that did not curse Boris Johnson for going all the way to half past three on Christmas Eve. You know, I'd be amazed if any supply chain professional in the UK and Ireland managed to have a Christmas dinner that was successfully purchased and cooked on Christmas Day. Fortuitously, we remembered Santa. But the challenge Brexit really posed us was that there was an awful lot we didn't know, it went to the wire, we had to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. You had COVID. And you also had Christmas. And Christmas in supply chain is a pretty big, big gig in its own right. Christmas plus COVID is, you know, a double whammy. And then you layer Brexit on top and supply chain professionals were really stretched to their limit. And I was a bit worried about people tired, you know, exhausted having to show up in the boardroom and present very complicated Brexit challenges, and quite rightly then face questions around 'Well, what if this happens?', 'What if that happens?', 'What if no decision is made?', 'What if it runs right to the wire?', 'What's going to happen at midnight on the 31st of December?'. You know, we were all thinking, what's going to happen? You know what could happen? And how can we make sure we're prepared? We were over prepared. And then actually, the final deal posed us very few challenges as a business. What poses the greatest challenge then was a new variant of COVID. That meant we had to close our borders and then France closed their borders. So actually, we used our Brexit planning to navigate the new wave of COVID that arose over the course of the Christmas holidays. We did a good job on Brexit. I wish we hadn't had to do a job on Brexit at all. We are a little bit worried that we might be enduring aftershocks of Brexit, you know, when we're not quite sure that Brexit is over yet, you know, when the world gets back to some form of normal, and people and traffic flows get back to normal. What does that mean for the flow of food and product around the planet? When, you know, one party contravenes a procedure? Or doesn't meet a criteria? What will that mean for the rest of us? So I think the big lump of Brexit work is over, but from a supply chain world, Brexit still on everybody's radar, and we're just making sure that we're ready for the aftershocks, whatever they might be.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 30:49

Yes. More to come on that one, I fear. If you were doomed to repeat 2020 over again, what would you do differently second time around?

Beth Hart 30:59

Oh, do you know what I would do differently? You know, we did try to do this, we didn't really, as well as we would like to. You know the whole principle of peloton, we kept saying, what we'll do is the guys that are in the eye of the storm, we'll give them a break, you know.And then we'll ensure that you've done your shift, you're on R&R, we're pulling you off the front line, and, you know, sending you home for Christmas. We talked about it, and we did it to a certain extent, but nowhere near as much as we should have done, because no one knew it was going to go on so long. And in business, once someone gets really good at doing something, you know, when they get loads of encouragement, and loads of recognition, loads of support, because everyone's hugely appreciative, they end up being the person that does it all the time, and end up being the person that probably does it for a little bit too long. But everyone thinks there's only one more week of it. So you think, oh, one more week of it. So if I could see how 2020 was going to pan out, I think that we would have maybe had a bit more structure about our, Team A or Team B. Not that any one's more important than the other. But we would have made sure that each team had a proper break, a proper rest. And that information was clearly passed between each team. So we could genuinely let people totally clock it. So they came back fresh for the next chapter. Because quite frankly, I don't think any of us can predict it, it went on so long. We find that rhythm now. That's very much how we work. Now, also, not everything is important.We know when things are good enough, we're probably better at that than ever. We'll go, "that's enough. Stop. Go home. Sleep. Thank you." And the final thing I think that we would have done that we do know very well as we have some really clear well-being rules in McDonald's UK and Ireland: No emails before 7am. Nobody emails after 7pm. Everyone takes a break for lunch. No meetings before 10am. No meetings after 4pm. And on Friday afternoon, focus Friday, no meetings at all. People have time to reflect and ensure that they are match fit for the next week. And that was introduced during COVID. That is now going to be the way that we work. And it is utterly transforming the way that we work and the way that we treat each other. And guess what - the way we prioritize our time, because technically, we've got less meeting time. So we have less meetings.

Daisy Powell-Chandler 33:47

That's everything from us. A big thank you to my guest, Beth Hart, of McDonald's UK and Ireland. Beth gave me some powerful reminders that are useful no matter what sector you work in. That doing the right thing makes business sense. That your organization needs to evolve over time in order to not only meet stakeholder demand, but to preempt changes in society and consumer desires. That the most important way of keeping your teams and your stakeholder groups in the loop is to communicate in a manner that is clear, consistent and frequent, even if there isn't anything new to tell people. Being a responsible business also means showing up at the level of responsibility that your organization represents. McDonald's have reevaluated their importance to British and Irish farmers in the wake of COVID and decided to deepen their engagement with that industry so that their commitment is at the same level as their potential impact. Finally, Beth also echoed what we have heard from every interviewee so far this season, that if they had their time again, they would have done more to shield their team from the impact of such a long lasting crisis. We all hope that COVID will remain an outlier in our careers. Nonetheless, it is sensible to avoid crisis comms plans that rely heavily on a small group of people and don't make allowances for rest and information sharing.

If you've enjoyed this episode, I hope you'll join me in two weeks time, when I'll be speaking to Liz Edwards from Tui about a surprising superpower I hadn't realized holiday companies possessed and what's next for the travel industry. To make that easier, please do find us at and click subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. I would also be really grateful if you could leave us a review if you get the chance as reviews help new listeners to find the show. Thank you for listening to Why Everybody Hates You. And remember, you are not alone.